LNWR Society Forum

Forum (only) for members of the LNWR Society
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:48 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:53 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Milnrow, Lancashire
On page 121 of Jenkinson's "LNWR Carriages" there is a so-called picture of the LNWR Royal Train comprising the King and Queen's Saloons plus four D1 saloons and two full brakes. I am looking to develop some virtual models for the Royal Train and in the first instance several questions arise:-

1. Does anyone know which diagram applies to the full brakes?

2. Does anyone have a typical formation for the Royal Train?

I would be very grateful for any information that might be available.

_________________
Creating virtual models of L&NWR carriages on TSSH.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Woking, Surrey
The LNWR Royal Train brake vans were D.374. They were converted in 1904 from D.378 ordinary brake vans, with a clerestory roof to match the rest of the Royal Train.

I don't think there was any fixed formation of the Royal train, being made up to suit the cirumstances and the requirements of the dignitaries travelling on the particular occasion. The main variable would be the number of 57ft 0in Semi-Royal Saloons D.1 and 45ft 0in Family Saloons D.63 provided to accommodate lesser Royalty, equerries, servants and officials.

In BR days the Royal Trains were known by the (supposedly secret) code names Grove, Deepdene and Deeplus, which indicated the degree of Royalty being conveyed. A "Grove" actually conveyed their Majesties and was subject to special signalling regulations. A "Deepdene" conveyed any other member of the Royal Family (such as the Prince of Wales) when the monarch was not present, and I think that "Deeplus" was used for trains conveying visiting foreign Heads of State and monarchs.

_________________
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:53 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Milnrow, Lancashire
Many thanks for the detailed reply. Based on this and the picture in Jenkinson I shall create the formation in the posed picture!

_________________
Creating virtual models of L&NWR carriages on TSSH.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Woking, Surrey
But Jenk says that "It is unlikely that the Royal Train ever ran in this formation".

_________________
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 317
I have a document which is currently at my Parents house which is the formation of the Royal Train i think in the mid 1910's when she was off to Holyhead.

If you bear with me a week or so, I am going to my parents next Saturday after the conclusion of the SGM so can dig it out and give you the formation of the train as she ran that day

Best

David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:53 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Milnrow, Lancashire
No problem David as it will take me some time to create what i hope will be a reasonable representation.

Whilst it may never have actually run in the formation illustrated in Jenkinson in actual service, it must have been formed and run to the location in order to take the posed picture! However surely we in the modelling fraternity are allowed a degree of latitude in order to show off the LNWR in all its glory!

_________________
Creating virtual models of L&NWR carriages on TSSH.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 317
You could apply Rule 1, its my railway. Don't think it makes a difference whether physical or virtual modelling

Best

David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 317
Hello Alec,

From an Ian Allan Reprint:

Her Majestys Train From Windsor to Holyhead, April 1900.

Engine
Guard, Van No210, 6 wheeler
Men Servants, Carriage No870, 6 wheeler
Dressers and Ladies maids, Saloon No73, 6 wheeler
The Countess of Antrim, Saloon No50, 8 wheeler
Princess Christian, Saloon No131, 8 wheeler
Her Majesty, Royal Saloon, 12 wheeler
Sir Fleetwood Edwards, Saloon No153, 8 wheeler
Indian Attendants, Saloon No71, 6 wheeler
Pages and Upper Servants, Saloon No72, 6 wheeler
Directors, Saloon No180, 8 wheeler
Directors, Saloon No306, 8 wheeler
Guard, Van No272, 6 wheeler

Total length of 513 feet excluding the engine which is not specified.

David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 317
Hi Alec

From the same reprint:

Their Majesties' Journey from Ballater to Euston. 21st and 22nd October 1901

Engine, unspecified
Guard, Van No210, 6 wheeler
Men Servants, Carriage No870, 6 Wheeler
Men Servants, Saloon No72, 6 Wheeler
Dressers and Ladies Maids, Saloon No73, 6 Wheeler
The Princes and Princessbof Cornwall and York, Saloon No59, 8 wheeler
Princess Victoria of Wales, Saloon No50, 8 Wheeler
Their Majesties, Royal Saloons, No numbers, 2 8 Wheelers and 1 12 wheeler.
Capt. Hon. Seymour Fortescue, Saloon No56, 8 wheeler
Suite, Saloon No9, 8 Wheeler
Directors, Saloon No180, 8 Wheeler
Directors, Carriage No306, 8 Wheeler
Guard, Van No272, 6 wheeler

621 feet in length excluding the engine

David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:53 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Milnrow, Lancashire
Thanks for all of that information which I need to process using Jenkinson to ascertain Diagram Nos, as I only have those for the 1915 Diagram Book which I assume reflects the renumbering?

_________________
Creating virtual models of L&NWR carriages on TSSH.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group