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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:30 pm
Posts: 38
Another question raised at Warley:

What diagram driving trailer would have been used around the St.Helens area in the latter years of the LNWR and into LMS days? Also is there any information on the locomotive identities that worked local motor fitted trains?

Many thanks

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Woking, Surrey
This information is included in a MSWorks spreadsheet which I am willing to supply on request. The file is included in the Virtual Carriage Register which I made available recently.

"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:49 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 352
The engines for the St Helens motor services were supplied by Sutton Oak shed (LNWR shed 24). Until 1920 these were almost exclusively 4'6" tanks. Individual engines moved around quite frequently and very few seemed to stay at the same shed for more than 2-3 years. The 1919 allocation is given in the Dudley Whitworth papers in the Archive (NOTE032).

motor fitted 4'6" tanks at shed 24
756, 835, 998, 1446, 2065. 2067, 2509

By 1920, 977 and 1003 were at shed 24, but the full allocation is unknown.

In 1920 it was decided to run 4-coach motor trains on the Warrington service and the platform at Vulcan Bank was extended (PTC minute). Probably because of this - and a similar scheme on the Oldham and Delph branch - 13 extra coal tanks were fitted with motor rodding. Initial allocations are unknown, but the following went to Sutton Oak from Crewe after overhaul (C Williams notes):
27/2/24 - (2356) 7565
30/10/24 - (3055) 7557
22/5/25 - (2490) 7555
It is likely that a number of 4'6" tanks remained at Sutton Oak alongside the coal tanks, but no details are available.

Another 36 coal tanks were fitted with rodding in 1925-27 as the 4'6" tanks were retired, and some of these went to Sutton Oak.
motor fitted 4'6" tanks at shed 24, cMay 1926
(820) 6590,
motor fitted coal tanks at shed 24
(582) 7780, (771) 7709, (2490) 7555, (3119) 7579, (3292) 7582, (3415) 7559

In Feb 1928, Sutton Oak had 7 motor fitted coal tanks, as listed in Pete Skellon's book. There may not have been any 4'6" tanks still there at this date.

The service was converted from rodding to VCR operation, possibly in 1929. The 4'6" tanks were scrapped, some coal tanks converted and 5'6" tanks equipped with VCR. In January/Sept 1935 Sutton Oak (now 10E) had 6 VCR-fitted coal tanks and 5 fitted 5'6" tanks.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:00 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 352
To add to the post above, another of C Williams' notebooks shows that in Feb 1928 Sutton Oak still had four 4'6" tanks,
6537/38/41/42. Former LNWR numbers 2519/21, 768, 1056 respectively. With the 7 coal tanks, that was a total of 11 rodding fitted engines.

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