LNWR Society Forum

Forum (only) for members of the LNWR Society
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:53 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 153
I am seeking to solve an enigma (to me at least).

I am trying to identify the coaching stock seen in the photos at http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm3320.htm which is dated 13th June 1897. Its the same coaching stock seen on page 10 of David Jenkinson's book on LNWR & WCJS coaches but with a Precursor 'faked' at the head of the train. See http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm3314.htm

David identifies the first eight coaches quoting the relevant Diagram numbers but in trying to determine what type of carriage they are, I seem to be misreading Derek's caption/Appendix notes.

The second carriage is stated as being D55 and this appears as 'W55' in Appendix I which I assume is correct - its stated as being 'ex-First Class Carriage from original WCJS corridor Train, gas lit'. The third and fourth are quoted as being D31A and D41 with the Appendix quoting them as being LNWR Kitchen-Firsts down graded to Third Class. Another close up photo seen at http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm3318.htm shows them to legend Dining Saloons on the sides of both vehicles. Are Kitchen-Firsts/Thirds the same as Dining Saloons? I had always though the kitchen car was a separate vehicle but I assume I must be wrong. D31A has a single veranda as seen in the photo so I am assuming they are the same.

Its a shame that David didn't use the photo with LNWR Greater Britain Class 2-2-2-2 No 528 'Richard Moon' at the head because all the carriages on the train can be seen. Is anyone able to identify the last five carriages seen in the fourth photo the bottom of http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm3320.htm?

As always any help is much appreciated and will be credited.

Many thanks

Mike


Last edited by Prospero on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Woking, Surrey
The first eight coaches have been correctly identified by David (not Derek, please) Jenkinson, except that the vehices identified as London North Western Railway D.31A and London North Western Railway D.41 were still in WCJS stock in 1897, and hence were P.1 and P.3 in the 1895 WCJS Diagram Book. These WCJS carriages were divided betwen the LNWR and the Caledonian Railway in 1906, and thus only joined the LNWR domestic fleet in that year.

The remainder are not too distinct, but I believe they are

WCJS 65ft 6in Composite Dining Saloon D.10 (one of the first batch of three built in late 1896 - the second batch which had slight differences appeared in July 1897).
WCJS 42ft 0in Corridor Composite D.54
WCJS 45ft 0in Corridor Brake Third D.44
WCJS 45ft 0in Corridor Composite D.31
WCJS 45ft 0in Corridor Brake Composite D.43

These 42ft 0in and 45ft 0in carriages were already obsolesecent at the time when the photograph was taken in June 1897. In July 1897 the first WCJS 50ft 0in designs emerged from Wolverton.

Kitchen Firsts/Thirds were synonymous with Dining Saloons, which were usually made of a Kitchen area (either central or at one end) and a Dining Area for passengers. These early WCJS diners operated in pairs, and later as a triple set. More details may be found in the book "A Register of West Coast Joint Stock" published by the HMRS. They did not carry any indication of the class of passenger for whom they were intended, and it is possible that they were sometimes used as "unclassed".

_________________
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 153
Philip

Thank you for the information which I will add shortly to the page.

As you can see from my original submission, I have amended David's name from Derek. I must have had a brainstorm as I don't know where 'Derek' came from - I had David's book in front of me!!

Again my thanks for your help.

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 3 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group