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 Post subject: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 99
Here's a query regarding ventilators fitted in carriage doors above drop lights, which I hope will elicit some useful information in response.

The Bahamas Loco Society are just completing the refurbishment of an LMS Wolverton-built former corridor composite coach (of 1924, to D1694) for use as an education centre at Ingrow on the K&WVR. It had been converted as a riding and tool van for use in breakdown trains at Wolverton in 1958.

In one of the toilets created at that time a ventilator of LNW origin had been installed. Having looked at a variety of photographs I consider this vent was the type fitted on the inside of coach doors above the drop light, although I would be more than happy to be corrected on this assumption.

So - my query is - and admittedly it is very much a 'long shot' - can anyone provide an identity of what vehicle this may have originally been fitted? A photo of the vent flap assembly, as removed, is below - and to confirm also that the initials LNWR are stamped into the brass operating lever.

The clues I have to help are:
On the reverse of the vent flap assembly is pencilled: "4581" followed by "1st". Based on other later fittings in the coach I expect this to be the number of the vehicle to which it was fitted and likely in a 1st class compt.

Also on the reverse is the stamp mark of the joiner who constructed the piece - again a common feature found on other parts in the coach. In this instance the name is Wildman. On checking the usual Ancestry sites etc, there was a George WIldman who was a joiner/carpenter/railway carriage finisher (depending upon the year of the census) who lived at Wolverton between at least 1888 and 1901. If he retired at 65 he would have worked until 1909. So, if any of this information is correct it could be that he made the vent assembly sometime during that period, or maybe even earlier.

So - does this 'evidence' correlate in any way? Was a carriage of that number - and which had a 1st compartment - built during that time period?

I know all this sounds a bit 'iffy', but such is the nature of the 'archaeological dig' that has been a feature of the coach project. As to why an old LNW vent flap was fitted in 1958 rather than one of a later LMS type I have no idea.

The intention is to restore this ventilator and for it to be used as a 'handling piece' on the assumption we can unearth some more of its history.

If anyone is interested in knowing more on the Wolverton-built coach and its new role, (now called the Learning Coach), then please follow the link to the BLS website. http://ingrowlocomuseum.com/?page_id=314

Thanks in anticipation of some response.

Regards
Pete


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 Post subject: Re: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Location: Woking, Surrey
LNWR 50ft 0in x 9ft 0in 7-compartment First Class (cove roof) No. 4581 was included on Page 110 of the 1915 Diagram Book. It was turned out on 03/01/06 as number 117 in the first class series, and was included in seven-coach Broad Street -Watford Set No.8. It was renumbered 4581 on 12/11/12 under the 1910 renumbering scheme. It became LMS 10125 on 18/06/26 and 10425 under the 1933 renumbering scheme (date not recorded). Two coaches - the composite and second in Broad Street - Watford Set 8 - had been removed by 1918, and as a five-coach set it became Euston - Watford Set No.10 by 2/24. The set was disbanded in 7/27 and combined with other coaches to form Extra Train No.66. At the moment I do not have a withdrawal date - I would guess early-mid 1950s. The late Richard Casserley had this information. But in the 1950s carriages often hung around for a long time at Wolverton after withdrawal and before being broken up, so it may well have existed in 1958.

Whether this is the carriage from which the ventilator came is of course unknown to me. But it was built while Mr Wildman was presumably still employed at Wolverton. The number 4581 would have been added by someone else in 1912.

I hope this gives you the information you need.

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"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman


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 Post subject: Re: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Location: Woking, Surrey
If it is of the slightest interest, in the summer of 1915 the Monday-Friday workings of Broad Strret and Watford Set 8 were as follows (24 hour clock times):-

Arr Dep
Watford 0612 Ran via New Line to Willesden
Euston 0656 0715 Two third class coaches attached at front for LNWR Co. workmen, detached at Warford
Tring 0821 0846
Broad Street 0953 1001
Dalston Sidings 1007 1633
Broad Street 1638 1720
Watford 1808

It was already a five-coach train at that date. The Satuday afternoon schedule was more complicated, and involved another return trip to Tring and two from Euston to Watford, again using the New Line.

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"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman


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 Post subject: Re: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 99
Phillip - this is indeed wonderful information and I thank you.
It's interesting to note that also on the reverse of the vent flap and its surround are the roman numerals VII applied by chisel - so an assumption could be that this was fitted in compartment No.7. There is also additional pencil notation beneath the number 4581 but as yet I've been unable to decipher this.
One of the overcoats of paint is maroon (beneath two coats of cream), so perhaps indicating an internal refurbishment in LMS days.
How good it is to be able to unearth a story about such a random item.
All that is needed now is a photograph of one of these vehicles at a platform with a door open and with the vent in view. I daresay that's a request too far - but there again......


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 Post subject: Re: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:43 pm
Posts: 539
Location: Wellingborough
Not a very clear picture and probably not the right type of coach, but like this?

(picture taken from GW Auctions website)

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: LNWR door ventilator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 99
Mike - yes it is. There's also a similar vent shown on Mystery Photo 107 http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Mystery/index.php?display_base_mystery_desktop=107 - although that shown has five cutouts not the six on the surviving example and as in the image on the poster.
Regards
Pete


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