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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:28 pm 
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We have added Aston's Windsor Street Goods Station & Wharf to the website but as can be seen only a few photographs of the yard in operational use were found, of which only one is really clear. If anyone can help by pointing us in the direction of any additional information or photographs we would be very grateful. As usual, all contributions will be fully credited.

See http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms ... street.htm

Any observations, corrections, etc, are very welcome.

Regards

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:36 pm 
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I've a few minor points of detail, that occur to me straight away:
- "a transit facility provided under cover known as Windsor Street Goods Station" - I thought that was Aston Goods
- "the latter also eventually accommodating a smaller goods shed" - for "eventually" read "before 1902" - see OS 1:2500 map
- I am assuming, without any evidence as yet, that the Goods Offices on Avenue St also dated from c1901
- "The Railway Clearing House Hand Book of Railway Stations notes that the crane power available could handle loads of up to ten tons" - at what date? I think it ended up being 30T or 40T

Note that the Wharf had only 6 sidings in 1902, only 4 of which could be used for loading /unloading. By 1913 the only addition to the Wharf was the second travelling crane and its associated siding - also the storage sidings north of Rocky Lane bridge. Between 1913 and 1938 a lot more sidings were installed, as in the aerial photos, including the covered platforms north of the warehouse at the Rupert St side.

and in the captions:
3268 - the goods station wasn't built in 1880, it was 1901
3657 - note where the enclosed hoists had been removed from the warehouse
3661 - if this building was in the corner of Rupert St and Rocky Lane, then it was built after 1913. Or was it the smallest of the 4 buildings in this corner on the 1913 map? What was it?
(it can also be seen extreme left in 3664)
3663 & 3667 - I can't find a Cornwall St in the vicinity. Do you mean Cromwell St?
3663 - "Cooling Towers at Heartlands Parkway" - do you mean Nechells power station?

in map 2303 the siding marked "Hardman's Sdg" is actually Wright's & Eagle Range No.2 Siding. Hardman's Sdg a/k/a Robinson's was the same as the so called "Nechells (sic) Gas & MTD". Hardman and later Robinson were tar distillers. I think MTD may have purchased the works from Robinson.

Some of these might be in the realms of nit-picking, but if I don't pint them out I doubt that anyone else will!

Many of the dates of the additional sidings and buildings will no doubt be found in the minutes of the LNWR Goods Traffic Comm and the LMS Traffic Comm, also LNWR Private Siding Diagrams will show dates.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Hi Reg

Many thanks for taking the time and effort to provide feedback. This page of the website was very difficult because I had no knowledge of the station or goods facilities. The last time I passed through Aston by rail was during the ‘Summer of Love’ in 1967 and a lot has happened since then. Gosh did I have a great time!!! As I stated, despite a lot of desk based research there was little information on Windsor Street to be found, hence my appeal for help.

I thought it might be useful to respond to your comments in the order that you raised them.

The use of the term Windsor Street Goods Station for the covered facilities was adopted because of the many variations of the name I found, with Windsor Street Goods Station being the one most used by other sources. In my copy of the RCH Hand Book of Stations the term Aston (Goods) is used and to be frank I took this as shorthand rather an official title. I only found one reference to Aston Goods Station although the use of the prefix ‘Aston’ as in Aston Windsor Street Goods Yard was found in the National Archives collection (referring to property documents for the years 1978 and 1979). I also found reference to Windsor Street Goods, Windsor Street Wharf, Windsor Street Wharf Yard, Aston Wharf (Windsor Street) Siding and even Avenue Road Goods Station’, the latter by the children of ex-employees on a forum.

As both the 1903 and 1913 OS maps (the only ones I had to hand) showed one portion of the site with the full name of Windsor Street Wharf and the other with the name ‘Goods Station’ and as the relationship between the goods facilities’ page was clearly subservient to Aston (see the route maps) I thought it best to differentiate between the two by using the most common names that I had found e.g. Windsor Street Goods Station and Windsor Street Wharf. I could rephrase the sentence to additionally include Aston Goods as being the term it was known to railwaymen. Your (and any other persons thoughts are very welcome).

I have incorporated your suggestions regarding the smaller goods shed, the Goods Offices and, in the absence of more info, I have deleted the reference to the tonnage capacity of the crane. FYI my copy of the RCH Hand Book is undated as the page with the date is missing. It once belonged to Bob Essery who must have sold it on as it was given to me by Robert Ferris.

Your comments regarding the Wharf have also been incorporated into the information. I trust they satisfy your observations.

Captions:
3268 - This photo was, until recently, the only photo of the goods facility which I had and was included on the station page. Its caption was therefore written for this context and should have been changed by me when it was moved to the dedicated page.

All the photos by Mike Westley (3654 to 3672) were obtained from the Geograph website and shared under the creative commons licence (reference to which has now been added) after Mr Westley has finally confirmed how he wanted to be credited on the website. As stated previously, I have no knowledge of the goods facility so I had to use Mr Westley’s own description where it wasn’t obvious from using the other photographs and maps as a reference. I too had questions arising from his captions and had passed these on to him (Cornwell street being one) and I am still waiting for a response.

As I am sure is apparent, Map 2303 is from commercial sources and I am unable to directly correct its two errors. I have therefore incorporated your response into the caption.

Are the minutes of the LNWR Goods Traffic Comm and the LMS Traffic Comm, available at the Society’s study centre or am I having to look at going to London to Kew?

Finally might I say that I don’t see any of your points as being nit-picking only helpful.

Many thanks

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:09 pm 
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In the LNWR (CD) WTTs, from 1903 onwards, the line heading is "Aston Junction, Aston Goods and Windsor Street". Trains on the Up GJ line are annotated "to Aston Goods". There are no specific references in the CD Appendix to the goods station as opposed to the branch or the coal wharf.
The index to the LNWR GTC minute books refers to Birmingham (Monument Lane), Birmingham (Curzon St), Birmingham (Windsor St), and Birmingham (Aston). I think it is clear what the LNWR thought the name was!

I was mistaken about the crane capacity. In each of the RCH HoS from 1904 to 1956, the max fixed crane capacity at Aston Goods is 20T and at Windsor St Wharf 10T. So apparently the second travelling crane, like the first, was only 10T capacity. apologies for the misinformation!
[Mike, if your HoS refers to LNWR rather than LMS, AND has a page size of 10" x 8" AND groups sidings under the "parent" station, then it can only be the 1904 or 1912 issue. Let me know how many pages, and what is the last entry in the book, and I'll confirm it for sure.]

Hardman's Siding became Robinson's Siding from 1.1.1921 and the MTD from some time between 1929 and 1938 (Stechford & Aston line).

The LMS and LNWR minute books are at TNA Kew, and we don't have copies at Kenilworth, only selected (highly selective)extracts. Mike Hollick and myself are gradually photographing them, but this is a massive project consuming a huge amount of time and considerable expense. We are still thinking about the terms on which we might make them available to other researchers (who have not shared in the time, effort and expense).

Glad to be of help!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Reg

Thanks again for the information, I do appreciate your time and effort in helping me.

I have now updated the website with revised content and credits. I trust you are happy with both but if not please do not hesitate to let me know.

Regarding the Hand Book. I do believe its post war but pre 1948 as there are no references to Soho Road and Handsworth which closed during the war. The last page is numbered 776 with Ystrad being the first entry and Zwicky, Ltd being the last (and only 'Z') entry.

Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:08 am 
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I am certain that your RCH Handbook of Stations is the 1929 Edition. No others had 776 pages, in fact all other issues had less. Notice that it shows LMS, GWR etc. Handsworth and Soho are included on pages 322 and 641 respectively. Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:52 pm 
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Thanks Reg. A much later edition is on my Christmas list!

Mike


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