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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 26
Hi All,
I have observed, over a fairly long period of time, the same questions regarding buffers of both locomotives, carriages and wagons, and have been thinking it's about time we (or I) said and did something about it.

I notice that there are some members who appear to reasonably knowledgeable on this topic, whilst others are asking the questions.

I think it a good idea to try and collate all the available information from the knowledgeable members, into a single source document with all the possible information gathered from any and all other members, so that it can be made readily available to all.

I would be willing to compile such a document if I can get the appropriate information.

Now the information required should be off, needless to say, all LNWR and LMS railway buffers.

These should include, locomotive, carriage, wagon and static buffer stops.

The most important information required would be, such as, suitable photos showing clearly the buffers, head on front, side elevation and top views, not necessarily in a single photo.

Any detailed drawings, sketches, including those on 'the back of a fag packet', from which I will be able to produce better drawings using CAD.

It is preferred the drawing information be of prototype form, although any 'scale' model drawings will also do.

Any historic details, such as when certain types of buffers were introduced and/or ceased to be used, in other words the period they were used.

In the case of vehicle buffers, what locos, carriages or wagons they were fitted to, and when.

I must stress, the overriding factor of any information is, ACCURRACY, particularly in any dimensional details.

All photos, drawings etc. will be treaty with the utmost care and respect, and if necessary returned to the owner, at my cost, as soon as I have retained the appropriate information from the documents.

If you have any information on this topic, please email me, first via the forum, then I will respond with my personal email address and details of how and where to send the information.

Regards,

Brian Nicholls.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 432
thanks Brian

That is a grand idea! Is there time to get your offer into the newsletter for the non forum users to see?

I do get around the railway system quite a bit and if there are static buffers known about then I will make it my business to attempt to use my camera on them; just let me know if you can't get there yourselves!

A good excuse to go and view that pile of bits of the crane wagon at Butterley!


ATB

Peter S.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 26
Hi Peter S,

I am only too happy to help in this matter.

I may contact Chris Northedge about putting this offer into the June newsletter, although I believe, the information has already gone to the printers, I know for certain the journal issue data has.
Perhaps it will go into the September issue.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and offer to look around the railway system, if you recall, last year you were kind enough to send me a couple of photos of the long length hydraulic buffer stop at York station, that I think was most certainly from late LMS or BR days, never the less, it is just the sort of photo detail that will be needed.

One other thing I should have perhaps mentioned, if the individual is photographing items of interest, then be aware of casting alphanumeric detail, as these can tell us a great deal.

That's if you can get close enough to the object !!

If taking a picture of such casting detail, before you leave, check that the detail is there, as often such information is lost in the background expanse of the object.

To overcome this it may need the camera positioning changing slightly, to one side or the other, up or down as the case may be, to highlight the detail. On modern digital cameras, with LCD screens, this is easy to check before you press the shutter button.

Brian Nicholls.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:43 pm
Posts: 563
Location: Wellingborough
An admirable idea Brian,

Some aspects of that will be very hard indeed, but most would be OK and the idea is sound. May I suggest the easy ones first? LNWR Wagons Vol.1 contains photos and sketches of all the major wagon buffers, but for accurate drawings you have a problem because I don't know of any Wolverton or Earlestown official drawings of buffers and GAs vary enormously, some being diagramatic and are best avoided. Fortunately examples of the major carriage wagon buffers are preserved, so they will be your major reference, together with published drawings of loco buffers by the likes of Nelson, Platt and Richards.

Would the Webbmaster allow a "work in progress" section which would encourage members to see the gaps and offer material?

Also, since this is no longer directly relating to models, maybe a new thread would be best?

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:38 pm
Posts: 89
Location: St David's, Pembrokeshire
Further to Brian Nichols posting in ‘Modelling’ I have started a new and separate topic, as Mike suggested. I have moved a few postings here to start it off; others which are more modelling related remain in under the old topic, which is still open for modelling matters about buffers, axle boxes and Springs.

As Brian states ‘ I think it a good idea to try and collate all the available information from the knowledgeable members, into a single source document with all the possible information gathered from any and all other members, so that it can be made readily available to all’

Please post all your research findings under this topic.

Thanks
Steve (FM)


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 99
To go someway in considering locomotive buffer perhaps page 34 of Bashers Gadgets and Mourners may be of assistance, which is attached below for those who don't have the book. A drawing of the LMS buffer is also attached below for info.
Regards
Pete


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 26
Hi Mike,

I agree, it's not going to be that easy.

For the past month or so, I have been working on three of Philip Millard's Wolverton drawings of a particular wagon, enhancing them to get them into a fit state to publish, along with an appropriate article, hopefully if time permits, in the September issue of the journal.

Now two of the drawings have good dimensional detail of the fixtures of the buffers to the buffer bar, coupled with limited detail of the buffer head assembly, including the size and number of damping cones used in the assembly.

The one full dimensional detail that I have not yet seen anywhere, is that of the overall buffer castings (of any version), which would detail the angles of the castings (where applicable), between the buffer bolting plate and the outer end of the casting at the buffer head end (i.e. where the buffer head shaft enters the casting). Even between the two drawings I am working on, the shape of the buffer castings differ slightly, and yet they should be exactly the same buffer assembly !

However, Philip's drawings (and any others) will be a very good starting point, and I will be contacting Philip as soon as I can (but at the moment I have my head down working on the drawings for the September issue of the journal).

On the point of drawings, one need not send a complete drawing, just photocopy or scan (preferably at high resolution) of the parts of the drawing that have the buffer and buffer bar detail (this may need to include the parts of three views of, side elevation, end elevation and plan view that show the buffers).

Regarding the size of photocopy or scan, I always say, 'the larger the better', as one can always reduce in size (within limits), but it is more difficult to enlarge, particularly from a very small original.
So, let me have as much information as possible, even if you (or others) think it insignificant, you never know it may just be the missing info needed.

Regards,

Brian Nicholls.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 228
Allow Mike ? As have said before, I don't allow anything, merely make available whatever wanted by members :-)

Certainly a good idea, will think, and listten to suggestions as to where to add it.

Simon


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:43 pm
Posts: 563
Location: Wellingborough
Good points Brian, and fabulous loco drawings from Pete, which satisfy most of the loco types.

I would not rely on any Earlestown drawing of wagons for details of the buffers. They were diagramatic and since the actual buffers were made from existing patterns and castings there was no need for accurate drawings on the GA. I have examples here at home of the shorter wagon 2-rib and Crystal Palace break types which I can photograph and measure, for the external shapes and sizes, if that would help.

For the common 10in 3-bolt there is just one wagon I know of which has them. It is on the Nene Valley and that is an actual LNWR casting, the shape of which is quite different to any of the GA drawings but does seem to match the photos. It is however not the easiest thing to measure accurately without special gauges which I don't have.

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 26
Hi Pete,

I could not think of anything more suitable than that you have posted here.

It is the ideal information that is required, and with very accurate details indeed.

I only hope there is more like it to come from what ever source.

Pete, absolutely brilliant.

Regards,

Brian Nicholls.


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