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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Waikanae, New Zealand
Though related to a model railway, this is a specific LNWR signalling question and not one of those "Here is my track plan; please signal my model railway" requests.

Attached is a rough sketch of part of the track plan of my LMS Western Division layout.
-Signal 1 is the starting signal at the end of the "Up" platform". (Though currently a standard semaphore I am currently building a replacement tall signal with a co-acting lower arm so it can be seen above the station footbridge by the drivers of approaching trains as well as by the crews of trains stopped at the platform).
-Signal 2 on the down line is a standard LNW semaphore and protects the crossover. (The crossover allows light engine movements to and from the shed to use either up or down lines.)
-Signals 3 and 4 are LNW ground signals controlling the crossover.
-My question relates to the control of the entrance/exit to the engine shed at 5.

I assume that the LNWR would have likely used another ground signal to authorise entry to the shed. But what about exit from the shed onto the up main line? The alternatives would seem to be another ground signal or, perhaps, a semaphore with a short arm (as well as a catch point to protect fouling of the main line). I realise that there will likely be no definitive answer, but it seems to me that exit from a steam shed onto a busy main line is a point of risk which would require a clear signalling indication, as well interlocking with Signal 1 of course. I've studied many photographs but haven't yet found one with a useful example.

And making a man in the cabin wave a flag is beyond my technical capacity.

Any thoughts on what might be "typical" LNW practice will be gratefully received.

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P1010925.JPG


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:23 pm
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Location: Warwickshire
Mike,

The exit from the steam shed would have been trapped with a ground signal.

Steve


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:33 pm
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Location: Waikanae, New Zealand
Thank you Steve

You will note from my original post that I'd got to that solution as one option, but the confirmation you have provided is just what I was looking for. Being on the other side of the world, and knowing no-one in my locale with any LNWR interest or expertise , I can't have casual conversations about such matters; so rely on my books, the net, and the goodwill of Forum members.

Cheers

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Warwickshire
Mike,

No problem. Happy to help.
I am making a model of Tredegar shed as it was in LMS days. The exits from the shed at Tredegar were both trapped and had ground signals.

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Warwickshire
Mike,

This is the yard exit at Tredegar. Note the trap and ground signal just to the left of the pannier tank. The other trap and ground signal are just to the left of the photo out of sight.


Steve


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:33 pm
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Location: Waikanae, New Zealand
Thank you Steve
We've been away for a few days and I've just picked up your post and photograph. That's a very interesting as well as helpful image taken, I assume, in the 1950s? Am I correct in that the ground signal by the trap is a LNWR miniature arm type? The other signals are also interesting - at least two GW or BR/WR types, but what looks like two LNWR short-arm shunt signals stacked on a single post in the left middle distance. I can't make out the origin of the bracket signal in the left far distance.
I'm not familiar with the complex history of the railways in South Wales, or the heads of the valleys line in particular, but assume that in their final years the ex-LNWR lines in the area were administratively part of the Western Region, hence the influx of ex-GW motive power and infrastructure.
Thanks again

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:23 pm
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Location: Warwickshire
Mike,

Yes, the area became part of the western division about 1957. Hence the pannier tank.
The ground signal is the LNWR small arm type. As you say, an interesting mix of LMS (ex LNWR) and GWR signals. I have a copy of the plans that were done and handed over to the western div.

Steve


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 pm
Posts: 352
I think I am correct in saying that the W Region "owned" all the infrastructure south of Abergavenny from 1950. Certainly the S&T records were transferred from Crewe to Reading Signal works at that date. The WR were then responsible for all renewals and maintenance. Operationally, some or all of it remained part of the "London Midland Operating Area" until 1957/58 when the OAs were abolished and the Regions assumed responsibility for operations.

Many people do not realise that the OAs worked in parallel with the Regions from 1948/50 until 1958.


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